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christinewalsh
14th January 2012, 11:20 AM
I have always loved the effect of granulation and would love to have a go at it. It has been briefly covered in one of my books and says that the granulation solution can made with cupric oxide but this seems to come in powder form. I was wondering if I anyone knew if I needed to add gum arabic to this or if I just simply add water. Any advice would be appreciated as there seems to be very little info available.
Thanks!

Silverwitch
14th January 2012, 11:43 AM
I read somewhere that you can mix with gum arabic or some other organic binder to help keep the balls in place. Watched a video on at the bench just before Christmas hopping to pick up a few pointers but they just soldered on the balls. Not quite what I was expecting.

christinewalsh
14th January 2012, 11:59 AM
I have read that you can create the copper coating by using old pickle and then use the gum arabic as the binder but I am lazy and was hoping to find a ready made solution. The book said cupric oxide is commonly used but in the picture it is in liquid form. I know that a granulation solution needs the two elements of copper and carbon and the carbon is in the binder so assumed that the cupric oxide was mixed with the gum arabic to create this but wasn't sure.

Anna Mc
14th January 2012, 12:28 PM
could this be done with soldering investment?

christinewalsh
14th January 2012, 12:35 PM
could this be done with soldering investment?

I dont think so but couldn't say for sure.

Palmate
14th January 2012, 01:10 PM
Hi Christine, not sure if this helps but ganoskin have a little bit on granulation

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/granulation.htm

christinewalsh
14th January 2012, 01:27 PM
Hi Christine, not sure if this helps but ganoskin have a little bit on granulation

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/granulation.htm

Thanks, thats great! I think I should be able to give it try once I have ordered the cupric oxide. Lets hope I dont end up with a big melted blob!

Dennis
14th January 2012, 04:12 PM
Anastasia Young, in The Workbench Guide to Jewellery Techniques , gives instructions for this (P210) using either home made paste solder, or coating both the backing and the balls in copper, by putting them in pickle with iron binding wire, and then sticking them in place with gum. There are instructions on making the balls, but no requirement for copper oxide.

I would recommend this book to anyone for breadth of coverage, Dennis.

christinewalsh
14th January 2012, 05:19 PM
Anastasia Young, in The Workbench Guide to Jewellery Techniques , gives instructions for this (P210) using either home made paste solder, or coating both the backing and the balls in copper, by putting them in pickle with iron binding wire, and then sticking them in place with gum. There are instructions on making the balls, but no requirement for copper oxide.

I would recommend this book to anyone for breadth of coverage, Dennis.

Thanks Dennis, I do have that book and read that chapter but I am after a solution that does it all in one which is what a lot of people seem to do. It appears that the copper oxide replaces the pickle technique of coating the silver balls in copper. The fine silver balls are just dipped in this solution (Copper oxide, gum arabic and flux in equal quantities) which does it all in one.

cambsbikerguy
15th January 2012, 01:03 AM
Thanks for this, I have done granulation of sorts - I sprinkled silver filings onto some designs after fluxing & melting a little extra easy solder onto the area to be done - then heated gently until I got the silver 'flash' as I call it - may have to repeat a few times - but I know when it's done by the colour of the flux which turns a greeny blue.

I knew how to make round beads using the method described, but never thought of tiny tiny beads!!

I love the idea of pickle plating the balls etc first to achieve the copper plate! I am concerned i would be left with a layer of copper in places I can't polish away.

Dennis
15th January 2012, 08:54 AM
No, that pink colour should disappear when you next pickle after granulation. If by any chance it does not, then warm but not hot pickle mixed with an equal part of hydrogen peroxide will do it. By the way,your pickle pot will behave normally once the iron wire has been fished out. Dennis.

cambsbikerguy
15th January 2012, 04:33 PM
No, that pink colour should disappear when you next pickle after granulation. If by any chance it does not, then warm but not hot pickle mixed with an equal part of hydrogen peroxide will do it. By the way,your pickle pot will behave normally once the iron wire has been fished out. Dennis.

mmm will have to try this, are you using cooksons safety pickle Dennis?

christinewalsh
15th January 2012, 05:33 PM
Thanks for this, I have done granulation of sorts - I sprinkled silver filings onto some designs after fluxing & melting a little extra easy solder onto the area to be done - then heated gently until I got the silver 'flash' as I call it - may have to repeat a few times - but I know when it's done by the colour of the flux which turns a greeny blue.

I knew how to make round beads using the method described, but never thought of tiny tiny beads!!

I love the idea of pickle plating the balls etc first to achieve the copper plate! I am concerned i would be left with a layer of copper in places I can't polish away.

I wondered about this but nothing I have read mentions any copper residue being left. I suppose its just a matter of trying it out.